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PicDither - PicEngrave - PicLaser.
tweakie Dátum/Date: Vasárnap, 2013-06-23, 06:44 | Üzenet/Post # 1
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Anything relating to - PicDither - PicEngrave - PicLaser etc.
 
Honk Dátum/Date: Péntek, 2013-07-19, 13:45 | Üzenet/Post # 41
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Tweakie
This is strange. I seen that when, I did it, but it did not mean anything to me ( or I didn't want it to ) until you put the little arrow on it. You know getting old is for the birds but guess someone has to do it. I made some adjustments on the bearings of my Y axis. It might have freed up things a little and I am building some belt tensioners and try again tomorrow. I'm getting out of here for the day.
Thanks
Jerry
 
------------
Hozzáadva (2013-07-19, 13:45)
---------------------------------------------
Oh no! I just found a real big problem in my X axis. I have two steel rails. for the dolly. bolted to aluminum channel and they expand at different rates causing a considerable amount of slop, in the center of the travel, on wormer days. I don't know if this is my line problem but it will have to re-do it before I move on.
Thanks
Jerry


Az üzenetet módosította/Modified by Honk - Péntek, 2013-07-19, 13:57
 
tweakie Dátum/Date: Vasárnap, 2013-07-21, 12:44 | Üzenet/Post # 42
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In a round-about way that's good news Jerry - you are finding and correcting possible problems.

I am sure that one day, when everything is working 100%, you will look back on all this with a smile. smile

Tweakie.


Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
 
Honk Dátum/Date: Kedd, 2013-07-23, 01:58 | Üzenet/Post # 43
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John
    I'm back together and I still have problems. I did two butterflies , one vertical and one horizontal, They did real good, I messed with the heat a little bit while they were cutting and neither one of them missed a line. So I went to a new large file, about 8 X 10 Inches, and I can watch the lines on X move slightly up and down on Y. (Horizontal) does the program move in one direction only, in Y(one pixel 1/100 ). When it goes from right to left. I see it jump a line then when it goes the other way it will fill in the space it just skipped over. I'm not sure but I would think it shouldn't do this. If the program only moves in one direction and doesn't go back to fill between lines my X axis dolly needs something done to it.  But why did it do the butterfly so good?
    If I determine it is the X axis dolly I will put another belt on it to pull it straighter. I can't see what it is doing but I can watch it do it.  I made the rails float for that axis so they would not bend with bimetal heat expansion but it looks like I'm not done trying to fix it.
Thanks Jerry
 
picengraver Dátum/Date: Kedd, 2013-07-23, 04:15 | Üzenet/Post # 44
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Jerry,
Any line skipping is not the program or gcode; it has to be the machine.  From your description that small images are good and large bad, I would suspect some sort of mechanical problem like racking or a loose dolly.  If it was an electrical/noise issue, image size should not matter.
John


I paint with a blue light beam.
 
Honk Dátum/Date: Szerda, 2013-07-24, 02:27 | Üzenet/Post # 45
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This is starting to get old. I decided to do the bigger file I have been trying to do horizontally , vertical instead and look what I get. This is doing something with noise???? Or maybe I should make a large noise. I'm not doing something right. The dithered picture is what I was hoping to get. It probably would be okay if I wanted to do modern art or something like that. I have re-dune every thing mechanical I can think of but it doesn't have and end to it. There are a  few things I could re-do to improve how tight it runs but I think I am chasing my tail. Any suggestions besides dynamite would be appricated
Thanks Jerry



Csatolások/Attachments: 7464433.jpg(124Kb) · 1920253.jpg(54Kb) · 5300353.jpg(137Kb)
 
picengraver Dátum/Date: Szerda, 2013-07-24, 03:34 | Üzenet/Post # 46
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Jerry,
Are your stepper drivers set for microstepping? 
John


I paint with a blue light beam.
 
tweakie Dátum/Date: Szerda, 2013-07-24, 12:10 | Üzenet/Post # 47
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Jerry,

Form the latest pictures, it looks like you have problems with both the X and Y axes loosing position. This problem could be either mechanical or electrical.

Perhaps check everything mechanical again to make absolutely certain that there are no tight spots or binding of cables etc.
Check your Mach3 motor tuning and reduce the Velocity settings for both the X and Y axes (save the changes).
Try running with the Mach3 toolpath display turned off (Diagnostics screen, bottom left) and see if that makes any difference.

Tweakie.


Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
 
picengraver Dátum/Date: Szerda, 2013-07-24, 14:43 | Üzenet/Post # 48
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Jerry,

To supplement Tweakie's recommendations, if you have not already done so, remove the drive belts when checking for mechanical looseness/binding.  If the carriage and dolly are without slop and move very easily and smoothly with no binding/catching, then perhaps you have a driver problem.  I don't recall you posting what drivers you use.  Are they Chinese?

John

Jerry, I was editing this post earlier when the site went down, so will try to continue my thoughts.

This last image exhibits a sinusodial waveform in the Y axis, which is not something I think can be caused by a mechanical problem, or electrical noise/skipped steps either.  Any of that should not be resetting Y position as your Y axis seems to be doing.

I have seen Mach3 do something similar a couple of years ago on one of my machines on the X axis, but I don't remember now why, and it never repeated.  I recommend that you change to Mach3 ver.062 (which I use) and see what happens.  I think you are using ver. 066, which is reported by some to give some strange errors.   Are you using Step Low Active, or High?  What drives are you using?

Just guessing here - not really sure from the strange results you keep getting.

Also, please try doing a large test image of nothing but black horizontal lines spaced about .02 inches apart.  Do the same image in both horizontal and vertical engraving modes.  This might help show any repeating patterns, if any.


I paint with a blue light beam.

Az üzenetet módosította/Modified by picengraver - Szerda, 2013-07-24, 22:13
 
Honk Dátum/Date: Szerda, 2013-07-24, 23:17 | Üzenet/Post # 49
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John
YES I have done that twice. My X can move with a feather. My Y might take two or three feathers it is heaver but no binding in either one The drivers are Chinese, see picture.

Jerry
Tweakie
Active step low is on, Green check marks X, Y, Z and A. C for laser on and off, is off. I did the test you suggested and horizontal was good vertical added a few thousands each line. I didn't run it long enough to see if it gave one of those sign waves.

Jerry
My laser just quit I am thinking it might be the relay for M05, M03 or my 5V power supply I'll check tomorrow

Csatolások/Attachments: 3062354.jpg(71Kb)


Az üzenetet módosította/Modified by Honk - Csütörtök, 2013-07-25, 03:21
 
picengraver Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-07-25, 00:10 | Üzenet/Post # 50
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Jerry,
I have no experience with the Chinese drivers, so perhaps some other member here will have some advice on using them with Mach3.  I have read about others having problems with them that cleared up when replaced with Gecko drivers.  You've checked, and rechecked, everything else, so seems only the drives are left to investigate.
John


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Honk Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-07-25, 21:52 | Üzenet/Post # 51
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Tweakie

Ver.062, I got it and got it in and going. But it didn’t fix my problem. I went into settings to recalibrate my axis's and I found something that could be causing my
problem. I don’t know what could cause what is going on but I am hoping you
might be able to lead me to a solution. When in Mach3 Set Steps Per Unit in Axis
Calibration I put 30 inches in X  set it and it will travel 30 inches. I will
put –30 inches in X and it will return to the same spot. Now here is the I don’t
understand part: I put 25 inches in Y set it and it will travel 25 inches but
when I put –25 inches in Y it will only return to about 24.75. It is like the
stepper is missing steps in only one direction. I am going to start moving
things around and see if the problem will move. Why can’t they make this stuff a
little dumber than me so I could figure it out.
    This is with the laser power supply off. I think I am loosing this next, my TTL isn't working but it will test and fire. Well that will have to be next months problem.
Jerry Honkanen

Hozzáadva (2013-07-25, 21:52)
---------------------------------------------
Don't Move For A While!!!! I might have found something!!! Wait a minute !!! I'm in pieces and I won't know for a bit!!! Hold on!!! But I'm sure this isn't the last of it.
Jerry

Az üzenetet módosította/Modified by Honk - Csütörtök, 2013-07-25, 20:06
 
picengraver Dátum/Date: Péntek, 2013-07-26, 00:24 | Üzenet/Post # 52
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Jerry,
In discussing stepper drivers and their design and specifications, I am absolutely outside my comfort zone, BUT, I find the following quote from the Wantai site (http://www.wantmotor.com/ProductsView.asp?id=257&pid=82 ) quite a coincidence with what I wrote earlier that I noticed a sinusoidal component in your last image.

"Average current control, 2-phase sinusoidal output current drive"

Perhaps Tweakie might know if this is an issue. 

John


I paint with a blue light beam.
 
Honk Dátum/Date: Péntek, 2013-07-26, 04:08 | Üzenet/Post # 53
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Well I'm sort of back going again. I don't know what is causing that little drop down and back up. And I don't want to say what I found that was causing that mess I was having. Two loose set screws on my Y drive stepper. That same dropdown was happening on the butterfly That Tweakie pointed out to me on post #40 and I still haven't a clue to what is causing it. I am going to try to run the same program tomorrow horizontal to see what happens. Sinusoidal projection probably cause lines horizontally ????
Jerry

Csatolások/Attachments: 5694919.jpg(54Kb) · 1756561.jpg(133Kb)


Az üzenetet módosította/Modified by Honk - Péntek, 2013-07-26, 14:09
 
Honk Dátum/Date: Péntek, 2013-07-26, 16:49 | Üzenet/Post # 54
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This is the horizontal cut pictures. It is sinusoidal for sure and I can't even tell what it is suppose to be. I think it is also changing speed or line spacing??? I saw it was getting lighter so I increased the heat at the bottom but at the top I left the pot alone no messing around there. When the lines are cut on X, Y is messed up and when the lines are cut on Y, X is messed up?????
Jerry

Csatolások/Attachments: 8310885.jpg(68Kb) · 0725148.jpg(110Kb)


Az üzenetet módosította/Modified by Honk - Péntek, 2013-07-26, 16:57
 
tweakie Dátum/Date: Péntek, 2013-07-26, 18:09 | Üzenet/Post # 55
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Jerry,

Is there any chance you could try another (different) PC and see if the same problem persists ?

Tweakie.


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picengraver Dátum/Date: Péntek, 2013-07-26, 19:57 | Üzenet/Post # 56
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Jerry,
Can you put a voltmeter on the output of the power supply for the cnc drives and monitor it while running the same image just posted?
John

Hozzáadva (2013-07-26, 19:57)
---------------------------------------------
Jerry,
Another long-shot question:
Are your stepper belt pulleys a good close tolerance fit on the stepper motor shafts?  Any run out to them?
John


I paint with a blue light beam.
 
Honk Dátum/Date: Péntek, 2013-07-26, 21:02 | Üzenet/Post # 57
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Tweakie and John
I contacted the supplier of my stepper motor kit and they recommended changing the amps setting and steps/per settings on my stepper drivers. I did increase the amps first and nothing is changed it is in the image in #54 I did try to increase the steps/per to what they recommended (12,800) and Mach 3 could not keep up at the 25000 Hz Kernel speed and wanted to increase it. at that point I left it at 2,000. This morning I tried it at 4,000 reset Mach3 and this is what it ran. The lines are still in the horizontal picture but greatly reduced. I do not see them in the vertical picture at all, but I do see that it is a negative of the picture. When I changed to ver.062 I must have something set wrong in Mach3 I'll fix and try again. Keep in mind I am talking way over my head but in another 73 years I'll probably get it figured out and then I might be able to show you how to run one of these computer things. The horizontal line picture I am unable to see any detail but it is also a negative.
Thanks Jerry

Csatolások/Attachments: 3840653.jpg(191Kb) · 2190824.jpg(57Kb)


Az üzenetet módosította/Modified by Honk - Péntek, 2013-07-26, 21:06
 
Honk Dátum/Date: Péntek, 2013-07-26, 22:52 | Üzenet/Post # 58
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If anyone knows someone with one of those portable car crushers send them to my house I have a big hunk of iron I need to do something with. IT CAME BACK I think I'll see if I can try another computer. If that doesn't do something I plan on trying brain surgery as my next profession. I'm sure it would be easier then being a Laser Mechanic. The only thing I changed is I changed C Drive Port 0 to 1 in Ports and Pins and I don't see how that would do that.  But I do think it corrected my negative picture problem. John; I did check the voltage from the power supply to the stepper driver and it was 35.5 V DC While running. I don't think that the drive belts slip there all new and real tight, also the square around the picture is perfect every time. Do you think the 5V DC power supply going to the breakout board might cause something like this? it's a Cheep-O and it might go goofy when it gets warm. I only question it cause it is a Cheep-O
Jerry

Csatolások/Attachments: 1740425.jpg(125Kb)


Az üzenetet módosította/Modified by Honk - Péntek, 2013-07-26, 23:05
 
tweakie Dátum/Date: Szombat, 2013-07-27, 07:41 | Üzenet/Post # 59
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Jerry,

I think you may have just put your finger on the problem.

A couple of years back I carried out some quite extensive tests with Mach3 and three different makes of stepper motors with relation to micro-stepping, holding torque and positional accuracy.
To cut a long story short, micro steps are not that accurate (it varies with the manufacturing tolerances and materials quality used in the stepper motor) and in all cases using micro-steps greater than 10 was counter productive.

If you are willing to give it a try then reset your stepper drivers to 1600 (1/8th micro-stepping for 200 step per revolution steppers), reset the steps per unit within Mach3 (calculating the belt pulley ratio) and then see how that performs.

Tweakie.


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Amatőr Dátum/Date: Szombat, 2013-07-27, 10:12 | Üzenet/Post # 60
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Jerry,
it seems very strange mistake for me, the most important that it is repeating and every sinusoid top have the same distance. Seems like some interference. To shortly test Your Mach give a try to another Cam software, like Kcam, and You'll see Mach is OK if the mistake stays, so the problem comes from elsewhere. If the problem disappears it means Your Mach or its settings causes this mistake.


Zoltan.


H1i.hu
 
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