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Fórum » Only in English » Technologies » Diode Lasers. (Using Diode Lasers with CNC Machines.)
Diode Lasers.
Dave Dátum/Date: Szerda, 2013-02-27, 06:14 | Üzenet/Post # 461
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Hi Peter, I did some reading at http://www.lasercomponents.com/ and they have some impressive power levels for the pulsed laser diodes. They also sell driver boards for the pulsed laser diodes and mention that the duty cycle for the diode can't exceed 0.1% ( 100 nanoseconds on and 100 microseconds off ). I did not see any information there that would indicate they are usable for what we're trying to do here. It looks like the wavelength choice is limited to 950nm or 1550nm.
They also do not list prices on the website so their definition of  'inexpensive' probably doesn't match mine.
Dave
 
tweakie Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 09:15 | Üzenet/Post # 462
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Hi Guys,

I have just been testing a new beta software program ‘G-Ray’ which has been written by one of our more recent member’s Csewe. It is not intended as a competitor to our other member’s software programs (DotG, PicEngrave etc.) because it works in an entirely different and perhaps unique way.

G-Ray is essentially aimed at users of 1 Watt diode lasers for creating greyscale images and operates by converting the pixel value of an 8 bit bitmap image into an X or Y axis feed-rate value.
As materials, such as wood, have ‘latency’ (a delay in their reaction time) they are burned more by a slow feed-rate and less by a fast feed-rate. This principle is used to enable a diode laser to produce a greyscale image without the need to have any form of electronic control of its output power levels, thus the uniqueness of the software’s operation.

(Because I am using a 40Watt CO2 laser - for my testing I had to modify the generated GCode by changing the ‘F’ (feed-rate) to ‘C’ (axis position) and as my C axis is fully electronic I used this to output a variable PWM signal to my laser trigger).

My initial results are not exactly outstanding (I adjusted the output power level a couple of times during the run) but they do, I think, show that this software is capable of producing the intended results. It still needs more testing (preferably by those using a 1 Watt diode laser) and development but it looks extremely promising so far.

Any that are interested or wish to try G-Ray should contact (PM) Csewe for his download link and further information.

Tweakie.

Csatolások/Attachments: 4686319.jpg(71Kb)


Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
 
csewe Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 10:10 | Üzenet/Post # 463
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Hi tweakie,
 
Perfectly in summarized.
Thank you.
 
JJWMACHINECO Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 14:01 | Üzenet/Post # 464
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Tweakie,

I believe John's program is capable of doing the same thing just by using the letter F instead of Z (Z on my machine) and changing all negative values to positive and change how deep to set it based on the desired feerate that would work the best. I just can't imagine it running very smooth constantly changing the feedrate on every line of g-code though. About like having to pulse the laser on every X&Y position or even worst like using M03 or M05 on every other line. I would try it, but I have been neck deep on the new build and have allot of custom machined parts to make.

I was looking at a 10W laser on this machine, but the focal point was to big and it could only run it 20 minutes on and 1 minute off. This one. http://www.kalecnc.com/index.php/front/productDetails/29/18

Not practical for doing any fine laser engraving and it's only TTL. I have decided on using two 2.5W 445nm laser diodes and focus them to the same spot. I'm not going to use a beam combiner or use my Z axis this time either. Our initial tests with a MAX5451 digital potentiometer using the step and direction pins looks promising to vary the power to the Denmark analog modulation driver. Thanks for that info Dave. My 24 year old son has a few grey hairs from soldering wires to that TSSOP-14, but he pulled it off.  respect

Real name. "Jeff"

Hozzáadva (2013-02-28, 14:01)
---------------------------------------------
Well,

I just did a little test, without lasering anything. By changing the feedrate on every line it actually runs pretty smooth. Had to set to litho code so dark areas would slow down.

John, if you could change your program to except the letter F in the third axis and be able to have a positive number in the minimum and maximum depths without having to do any editing afterwards, I believe it may be do-able after all, but I will have to do more testing later. thumb I can see doing that way will take considerably longer to laser engrave shades.   

Jeff


Extensivly Re-worked/Re-designed/Modified Servo K2CNC KG-3925 and the Mini Laser Engraver

Az üzenetet módosította/Modified by JJWMACHINECO - Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 14:28
 
KisKZ Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 14:24 | Üzenet/Post # 465
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Idézet (Dave)
Hi Peter, I did some reading a
Dear My friends!

Thank you for all of your response!

I got some direct information about electronics parameters of diodes from Lasercomponents and throught they from diode manufacturer Axcel Photonics.
Now I'm wait for some other from other manufacturer. Then I will collect all information and will try to make a summary.

Thank you again and have a very nice day!
 
tweakie Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 14:26 | Üzenet/Post # 466
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Idézet
I have decided on using two 2.5W 445nm laser diodes and focus them to the same spot. I'm not going to use a beam combiner or use my Z axis this time either.


Sounds interesting Jeff.
May I ask what you are intending to achieve by focussing two 2.5 Watt lasers to the same spot ?

Tweakie.


Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
 
KisKZ Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 14:27 | Üzenet/Post # 467
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Idézet (picengraver)
If you are not aware of this forum, please check it out as there is a lot of good (along with a lot of not so good) information and experienced diode users : www.laserpointerforums.com
Thank you John!

I'm already found this forum and I saw here lot of very helpfull informations.


Can somebody give me more 20 hours plus for a standard 24 Hours in a day? smile
 
JJWMACHINECO Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 14:43 | Üzenet/Post # 468
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Tweakie,

it will take some very precise 3D Cad/Cam and machine work. I plan on making a two piece heat sink to clamp both laser diodes in at a slight angle where the beams will focus at the same intersecting point. I hoping it will double the burning power of the 2.5W. The dual Denmark card can power two lasers diodes at once so I should be able to run 5 times the feedrate then my 1W. I'm starting to get impatient on my engravings and just have a need for speed.  biggrin

Jeff


Extensivly Re-worked/Re-designed/Modified Servo K2CNC KG-3925 and the Mini Laser Engraver
 
picengraver Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 14:46 | Üzenet/Post # 469
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Tweakie, Jeff,
A very interesting concept.  Similar to what I tried to achieve with PicLaser in gray scale mode, but which turned out to be agonizingly sloooooooow smile .  I am glad to see a new method being developed.

Csewe, my congratulations on your development.  Please let me know if I can assist you in any way.  I am especially pleased to see new interest and participation in image reproduction using low power lasers.

John


I paint with a blue light beam.
 
csewe Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 15:11 | Üzenet/Post # 470
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JJWMACHINECO
 
Probably not doubled the performance of the due to interference.
It would make sense to ask people physics mind.

Hozzáadva (2013-02-28, 15:11)
---------------------------------------------
picengraver
 
Thank you for your offer of help.
I would like to see a demo version of your program.
I'll have a link for the download.

 
JJWMACHINECO Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 16:26 | Üzenet/Post # 471
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Idézet (csewe)
JJWMACHINECO,
Probably not doubled the performance of the due to interference.
It would make sense to ask people physics mind.

What interference are you talking about? The new build is a rack & pinion servo system that can run at a 525IPM rapid.

People with "physics mind" sometimes can't think outside of the box they were herded into, so there would be no reason for me to ask any of them, anything. I'm just a good old uneducated, self taught country boy with hell-of-allot of common sense that can figure things out on my own and can produce successful end results. I have run into several people in the past that claimed lasering shades is not possible for several different reasons, but I was first to be able to do it very successfully. Can't is not in my vocabulary and you shall see!!!

If I appear to be defensive in my comments, I do apologize. When someone tells me something can't be done, it just motivates me even more to prove them wrong and I do appreciate the fire you put under my ass CSEWE. I'm going to return the favor and say that your software will never produce as good results lasering 8bit shades as an electronic means to control the lasers power. You may want to ask someone that knows that.

Jeff


Extensivly Re-worked/Re-designed/Modified Servo K2CNC KG-3925 and the Mini Laser Engraver

Az üzenetet módosította/Modified by JJWMACHINECO - Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 16:33
 
KisKZ Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 16:37 | Üzenet/Post # 472
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Idézet (csewe)
Probably not doubled the performance of the due to interference.It would make sense to ask people physics mind.

Maybe you do not know, but Pablo are tried using two laser sources. Two 1W 808nm laser diodes.
He need to have some experience in this.

Need to ask he about..
 
csewe Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 18:04 | Üzenet/Post # 473
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JJWMACHINECO
My not was meant scoff.
I appreciate you for your work pioneer.
Just wanted to draw your attention to two of the same wavelength laser light does not necessarily reinforce each other.
I'm sorry if it was offensive.

I do not speak English, just using the google translator.
It is therefore possible misunderstanding.
 
tweakie Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 18:41 | Üzenet/Post # 474
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Idézet (JJWMACHINECO)
Tweakie,

it will take some very precise 3D Cad/Cam and machine work. I plan on making a two piece heat sink to clamp both laser diodes in at a slight angle where the beams will focus at the same intersecting point. I hoping it will double the burning power of the 2.5W. The dual Denmark card can power two lasers diodes at once so I should be able to run 5 times the feedrate then my 1W. I'm starting to get impatient on my engravings and just have a need for speed. 

Jeff


Hi Jeff,

It will be an interesting project indeed (I like the 'need for speed').

From what I have read on the subject of combining two (or more) polarised laser beams (without the use of a suitable beam combiner – more usually a crystal) there is interference between the wave fronts which alternately combine to produce up to 4 times as much power then subtract to cancel each other out as the relative phase between the two beams change.
In theory it is possible to have two lasers operating at precisely the same wavelength then adjust the position of one to get the relative phases between the two exactly in step.

As has already been said, without your pioneering work we would not now be engraving true greyscale images so if the new project is successful and I sincerely hope that it is, who knows what wonderful new things we may be able to do in the future thanks to your efforts and determination. ok

Tweakie.


Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
 
Dave Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 18:47 | Üzenet/Post # 475
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Hello all,
It will be interesting to see if using more than one laser diode will have problems due to interference or not. Theoretically, if one diode is 1/2 the wavelength farther from the target than the other, the two should cancel each other out (my physics is way out of date though). The 445nm diode that I'm using emits light in three separate bands or stripes that are visible if projected on a card some distance away but it burns very well at the focus distance, so maybe it doesn't matter?
 
It will also be interesting to see if the pulsed diodes will be of use. Apparently there are stacked arrays available that can handle up to 200 watts at a 0.1% duty cycle. I haven't contacted the manufacturer to find the price or usability though.
Dave
 
picengraver Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 20:52 | Üzenet/Post # 476
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Jeff:
I think some may be missing the point of the action of a two laser beam system as you are building.  Regarding two laser beams at same focal point - the output power (heat) of one source (laser) can not subtract (or make disappear) the heat from the output of another separate source (laser).

It is not the specific visible wavelengths of the lasers we are dealing with, but rather the heat (power), as transmitted by those laser beams, which is absorbed by the wood at those laser beam's focal points.  It is physically impossible, from what little I remember of physics class, for one heat source to negate another.  The material absorbing the heat has to absorb it from both beams.  Am I wrong in my memory, anyone?  I do not argue about visible light frequencies cancelling each other or adding to each other, but heat (power) can not simply disappear.  I hope I am explaining what I mean somewhat clearly.

ceswe:
Please send a private email to me: picengrave@verizon.net .

John


I paint with a blue light beam.
 
KisKZ Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 20:57 | Üzenet/Post # 477
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Idézet (JJWMACHINECO)
have decided on using two 2.5W 445nm laser diodes and focus them to the same spot.
 
woww!!!

I read it only now! Sorry!

I'm qurious about result.
 
JJWMACHINECO Dátum/Date: Csütörtök, 2013-02-28, 21:44 | Üzenet/Post # 478
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John,

That was my way of thinking. Heat is what burns the material for the engraving to appear. I just need to generate more heat so I can run faster. My next CNC engraving machine build is to tap into the sun's power to engrave 8bit shades. The problem is there is no electrical way to vary the power and that's where variable feedrate image engraving software will come in handy.  haha

Jeff


Extensivly Re-worked/Re-designed/Modified Servo K2CNC KG-3925 and the Mini Laser Engraver

Az üzenetet módosította/Modified by JJWMACHINECO - Péntek, 2013-03-01, 11:45
 
picengraver Dátum/Date: Péntek, 2013-03-01, 00:47 | Üzenet/Post # 479
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Wellllll, there may be a way to control the sun's rays.  Perhaps by using a variable iris in front of a lens.  More light on the lens = more burning power.  Just conjecture, but easy to test.  Of course, you'll probably also need a tracking method to stay aligned with the sun.

http://hackaday.com/2011/12/28/solar-powered-cnc-woodburning/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzOeG1tfLaY

smile John


I paint with a blue light beam.
 
tweakie Dátum/Date: Péntek, 2013-03-01, 08:21 | Üzenet/Post # 480
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Idézet (picengraver)
I think some may be missing the point of the action of a two laser beam system as you are building.  Regarding two laser beams at same focal point - the output power (heat) of one source (laser) can not subtract (or make disappear) the heat from the output of another separate source (laser).

It is not the specific visible wavelengths of the lasers we are dealing with, but rather the heat (power), as transmitted by those laser beams, which is absorbed by the wood at those laser beam's focal points.  It is physically impossible, from what little I remember of physics class, for one heat source to negate another.  The material absorbing the heat has to absorb it from both beams.  Am I wrong in my memory, anyone?  I do not argue about visible light frequencies cancelling each other or adding to each other, but heat (power) can not simply disappear.  I hope I am explaining what I mean somewhat clearly.


A laser beam does not actually contain any heat – it is the ‘reaction’ of the material it comes in contact with that produces the heat.

Tweakie.


Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
 
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